tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6649591714373684167.post5477219587002761535..comments2024-02-29T16:43:55.241-05:00Comments on Lurking Rhythmically: Pellatarrum: NavigationErin Palettehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09984632637166408245noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6649591714373684167.post-48236201330496221242010-09-18T16:29:44.809-04:002010-09-18T16:29:44.809-04:00I would flip the semantics of your argument; it...<i>I would flip the semantics of your argument; it's not so much that animals have magical powers, but that rangers and druids have learned the instinctual abilities of animals. </i><br /><br />I like this so much that it's a dandy way to quantify things: <b>If you do not have the Animal Empathy ability (as all Druids and Rangers do at 1st level) then you can't use the Survival skill for land navigation. </b>Erin Palettehttp://lurkingrhythmically.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6649591714373684167.post-60951231045042941762010-09-18T15:54:25.134-04:002010-09-18T15:54:25.134-04:00Ok, but just because the surface of the world is a...Ok, but just because the surface of the world is a disk doesn't mean you can't <i>impose</i> a grid on it. If an area is mapped, it might be known very well, and even if you get off-course a bit, you should still be able to reorient when you find the next landmark, and the distances between many different features and locations should be well known.<br /><br />Granted, that's not much help once you wander off the map. Without accurate clocks, yeah, I think folks would be screwed, other than perhaps just moving straight Dwarfward in the hopes of reaching civilization before their supplies run out. So I have to wonder, are you planning for lots of TPKs when the party's druid or ranger dies due to hungry owlbear attack in the middle of the night?Trollsmythnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6649591714373684167.post-1454445731681486072010-09-18T15:53:21.651-04:002010-09-18T15:53:21.651-04:00Ok, but just because the surface of the world is a...<i>Ok, but just because the surface of the world is a disk doesn't mean you can't impose a grid on it.</i><br><br>True, but what good does a grid do you if you can't follow it? <br><br>As an example, let's say you are facing Deosil, with Dwarfward on your left. Now try to go straight. If you do not have a map or known landmarks, it is impossible, because you will always curve to the left, since Deosil always curves around the Spire. It's basically navigation through polar coordinates, which is a discipline 99% of Pellatarrans do not possess. <br><br>If you have a good eye, it's not hard to make a decent map. But without a map, walking in any direction that is not Dwarfward is erratic at best, and given the sheer size of Pellatarrum, simply walking Dwarfward is not a guarantee you will reach civilization before you die of exposure. <br><br><i>So I have to wonder, are you planning for lots of TPKs when the party's druid or ranger dies due to hungry owlbear attack in the middle of the night? </i><br><br>Sigh. No. Not at all. <br><br>That is what happens to NPC parties. PCs, on the other hand, stumble around until the come across some sort of side quest or hidden dungeon or other form of adventure. Unless for whatever reason the GM <i>wants</i> a TPK, to teach them a lesson or to be a jerk. <br><br>I have to ask, why is it every time I introduce a rule like this, the immediate reaction is to accuse me of being an asshole GM who only wants to kill the entire party?Erin Palettehttp://lurkingrhythmically.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6649591714373684167.post-73140072448180888052010-09-18T15:40:55.765-04:002010-09-18T15:40:55.765-04:00As an example, let's say you are facing Deosil...<i>As an example, let's say you are facing Deosil, with Dwarfward on your left. Now try to go straight. If you do not have a map or known landmarks, it is impossible, because you will always curve to the left, since Deosil always curves around the Spire.</i><br /><br />Um, ok, you lost me here. Are you saying that if I stand on a disk and try to walk straight across it, some magic power of disk-i-ness will force me to walk in a curve? (I'm assuming here that the spin of the disk has no effect on locomotion the same way the spin of the Earth doesn't.)<br /><br /><i>PCs, on the other hand, stumble around until the come across some sort of side quest or hidden dungeon or other form of adventure.</i><br /><br />::puts on his official Old School Renaissance Curmudgeon cap::<br /><br />Wimp! ;)<br /><br />Ok, seriously, if the point isn't to make wilderness exploration insanely hazardous (to the point that nobody is going to even try it unless they can move radially directly away from the Dayspire), what is the point? You've only just discouraged the PCs from striking out into the unknown. Of course, there's no reason to ever go out there because there's nothing out there; unintelligent animals will all die because they can't navigate back to "known" water, nor can claim territories or the like (unless blessed by the same sort of magical navigational aids as druids and rangers).<br /><br />Actually, now that I think on it, they <i>must</i> be so blessed; without such help, birds would never be able to return to their nests nor bees to their hives. :/Trollsmythnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6649591714373684167.post-48290195120733644822010-09-18T14:48:55.416-04:002010-09-18T14:48:55.416-04:00Um, ok, you lost me here. Are you saying that if I...<i>Um, ok, you lost me here. Are you saying that if I stand on a disk and try to walk straight across it, some magic power of disk-i-ness will force me to walk in a curve? </i><br /><br />OK, I will try this again. <br /><br />Humans do not naturally walk in straight lines over long distances. We tend to veer in the direction of our handedness, which is why many people who get lost end up traveling in a circle. There are techniques to help prevent this, such as alternating left-right-left-right when going around trees in dense forests, but the fact remains that lacking the enhanced senses and instincts of animals, we rely on tools (maps, compasses, roads) to keep us where we are going. <br /><br />Now unless you are marching Dwarfward, you are going to go off course for travels of more than a dozen miles or so without the presence of a ranger or druid. If you are heading Wayward, it's very easy to veer to the left or the right since you don't have eyes in the back of your head to maintain your heading. You have to stop every 20 minutes or so, look back, try to align yourself between the Spire and where you are going (if you're fortunate you have a piece of terrain you can aim for, like a mountain.)<br /><br />Deosil and Widdershins are even harder because they are subjective. Let's say for the sake of argument that you can march a perfectly straight line due Deosil with the Spire on your left. Eventually you will no longer be marching due Deosil, even if your route never deviates, because Deosil itself is a curved direction <i>Marching perfectly Deosil, or perfectly Widdershins, is to march in a circle, because these directions curve around the Spire.</i><br /><br />So you won't specifically be walking in a curve, but your sense of direction will insist that no, Deosil is <i>this</i> way, and it will throw you off course, much the same way that the Coriolis effect will case a moving object in a rotational environment to deflect. <br /><br /><br /><i>Actually, now that I think on it, they must be so blessed; without such help, birds would never be able to return to their nests nor bees to their hives</i><br /><br />I would flip the semantics of your argument; it's not so much that animals have magical powers, but that rangers and druids have learned the instinctual abilities of animals. <br /><br /><i>Ok, seriously, if the point isn't to make wilderness exploration insanely hazardous (to the point that nobody is going to even try it unless they can move radially directly away from the Dayspire), what is the point?</i><br /><br />The point isn't "If you go out there you will die," although that's never stopped PC groups before (I'm thinking specifically of the Shadowlands in Legend of the 5 Rings, which are described as literally being Hell On Earth, and yet PCs adventure there at least once); the point is "If you go out there, you will not come back."<br /><br />It's terra incognito, the Bermuda triangle. You will find adventure and riches and glory and death (not necessarily your own) out there, but once you leave the safety of civilization, finding your way back home is a crapshoot. There is no running back to safety. You are lost, and you either step up to adventure or you die. <br /><br />If you can't find a reason to go out into the unknown, you aren't a PC. Stay home on the farm.Erin Palettehttp://lurkingrhythmically.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6649591714373684167.post-15070751130290621382010-09-18T14:48:37.140-04:002010-09-18T14:48:37.140-04:00Ok, this makes sense. It's going to make mapp...Ok, this makes sense. It's going to make mapping the wilderness even more annoying than normal, but most groups could just handwave that if they wanted.Trollsmythnoreply@blogger.com