Sunday, October 14, 2012

Bleg for Info

I'm looking for a scope to mount on my Sub-2000 and due to personal preferences, ergonomic comfort of my mother, and the configuration of the subbie, I need one with the following qualifications:

  1. It must have a quick-detach mount, so I can fold the S2K for storage and cleaning. 
  2. It needs to have sufficient magnification that I can reliably hit bullseye from 50 yards.
  3. It must also have a way of mounting a reflex or holographic sight above the scope, for close-in home defense work. 
  4. It cannot cost me an arm and a leg, so no recommending a thousand-dollar Leupold HAMR scope. Somewhere around $100 is good. I can go higher, but not much. 
  5. Ideally, it should be American made, but I will settle for Not Chinese. I realize, however, that this is probably contradictory with point #4. 

If you can recommend to me a scope that has most of these characteristics, I will be very grateful. Thank you!


  1. -all chinese made, but supports a texas based business. 

  2. Rather than recommend one scope, I've got a reading list...

  3. Try a red dot scope, you can get one for less than $100, but I would avoid the very cheapest.  They will work well for the range you mention, and for closer in work as well.  (Remember for home defense, you just need a torso hit--MOA accuracy at the ranges found in a house isn't really a requirement.)  I would avoid the NorStar line though--pretty undependable crap.

  4. I'd say if you're planning on putting a reflex or holographic sight on it, stick with that.  50 yards is not outside the realm of reason for accurate shooting with non-telescopic sights.  I'd go with a reflex sight now, and get a magnifier for it down the road if you decide you need/want it.  Especially since your budget is around $100.

    As for recommendations, I don't know if I can make one at that price point and not made in China.  I have a Sightmark reflex sight on my AR at the moment, and it seems to be holding up, but... made in China.

  5. My desire to avoid Chinese products is less about "rah rah USA" (though I confess that is a part of it) and more about a desire to avoid cheap crap which breaks easily. 

  6. as for the red dot: Bushnell TRS-25, bout $90, battery about 3000 hours, made in PRC but well made, small and holds zero well.

  7. I just woke up from a nap in which I had a dream in which they had a new "Illinois Concealed Carry Class" and the range officers were standing BEHIND the targets which could only be shot 5 inches away as you can't  EVER shoot outdoors.   I really not ought to eat spicy food before a nap.

    I have few weapons with scopes except Vera.  I'll pass this on to some friends and see if they have any ideas.


  8. I concur with this statement.  There's a wide variety of Chinese glass, ranging from crap to good.  Primary Arms has them manufactured to their specs and it shows, they're pretty nice scopes for the money.  

  9. I'd love to buy something from Primary Arms. Unfortunately, they don't have what I want.

  10. This is a 9mm or .40 S&W carbine, correct? Assuming that, I reccomend just a simple non-magnified red dot. I'd look at Primary Arms. If you do go with magnification, keep it low range. Nothing greater than 3X or 4X. Seriously, for a pistol caliber carbine, any more magnification than that is wasted as you really aren't going to be able to engage targets out past 100 yards (at max) anyway. And, realistically, 25 to 50 yards is youre best zone.

    You'll also likely find a magnified scope with a red dot on top will be too bulky and ruin the "feel" and balance of the carbine. Then theres the cost of two optics.

    I'd get an inexpensive red dot, mount it and practice, and then reevaluate after that.

  11. Yeah, I didn't expect to go any longer than 50 yards -- although I would like to be able to pull off headshots at that range. :)

  12. A mini red dot, even with a relatively huge 5 MOA dot, will still pull off 50m headshots -- the dit is still only about 2.5" at that range.  When Rudolf is a Red-Nosed Reindeer, stroke the trigger.

    I recommend using an offset sight (45 degree or 1 o'clock) -- you'll still be able to fold it, if you mount it at teh right point of the forearm.  Zero it for teh offset impact -- if the sight is 1" to the left of the bore axis, the group should be centered 1" to the right of the point of aim.  (You preserve the offset because otherwise, your gun will only be accurate at ONE range, where POA and POI cross.  This way, the gun will ALWAYS be a consistant distance from exact POA -- so, presuming a leftside sight, put the dot on the target's right eye {to YOUR left}, and the bullet should land right between his running lights.)

    Set it on your weak side, and look alongside the gun, rather than across the top.  An offset sight (and offset zero) was used quite effectively on weapons with top mounted magazines, like the Bren LMG and Austen and Owen SMGs.

  13. I put a TruGlo RED/Green Dot on my sub2K. It is small, light weight, has 4 recticles[2.5moa dot, 2.5moa dot inside a circle,5moa dot, and 5moa dot inside a circle]. Installed on the Kel-Tec quad-rail it cowitnesses with the iron[plastic] sites. It comes with a thumbscrew rail mount, not QD. The smaller dot is accurate at longer ranges. I have fired about 350 rounds of 9mm with this on my s2k, and it has held zero. As long as I put it back on the rail in the same place, I don't lose zero by removing it either. About $90 on Amazon.   Made in China.
        If Primary Arms had a MicroDot in stock, I probably would have went with that.


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